I totally don't understand this. こんな馬鹿なことは言ったことが無い。 English That's the… - Feed Post by DragonR33UA
I totally don't understand this.
こんな馬鹿なことは言ったことが無い。
English That's the stupidest thing I've ever said.
Why I have ever said and not I haven't?? 言ったことが無い Ga connects 無い with 言ったこ?
Or 授業が全然無いとでも言うの？！
English You never have class or what?!
Why here is also と? And でも means but, but here is no but =D 言う means say, but it is not even exist in english translation.
Does someone have any ideas?
こんな馬鹿なことは言ったことが無い。
English That's the stupidest thing I've ever said.
Why I have ever said and not I haven't?? 言ったことが無い Ga connects 無い with 言ったこ?
Or 授業が全然無いとでも言うの？！
English You never have class or what?!
Why here is also と? And でも means but, but here is no but =D 言う means say, but it is not even exist in english translation.
Does someone have any ideas?
posted by DragonR33UA
Comments 13
The source where the sentences are taken from—either the Tanaka Corpus itself or the Tatoeba project—they don't seem to use literal translations very often but rather rephrase it into natural spoken language. The sentences may also have been English ones originally and then translated loosely in the opposite direction.
A good place to view those two sentences is on the Tatoeba.org site itself, where there are multiple English and other language translations for those sentences:
http://tatoeba.org/sentences/show/4760
http://tatoeba.org/sentences/show/4847
Taking a stab at that first sentence—there are basically three main parts:
・TOPIC marked by は: こんな馬鹿なこと [thing this stupid]
・SUBJECT marked by が: こと [thing], which is being modified attributively by a relative clause 言った [said] that does not state its own subject (私 [I]).
・PREDICATE, which happens to be an adjective in this case: 無い [not; negative; non-existence]
The TOPIC is essentially not part of the grammatical sentence proper; the proper part of the sentence (the main and subordinate clauses) is just the SUBJECT+PREDICATE (the subject containing a relative subordinate clause).
・Relative(subordinate) clause = (私が)言った [(I) said]
・Main clause = ことが無い [thing is not / thing does not exist]
I've kind of just abandoned trying to explain this completely, as it is awkward in these tiny feed comment boxes. Basically... "a thing this stupid" is the theme that the proper part of the sentence will be about... "not a thing I've said before" is the proper sentence and it is a comment about that topic. When a topic is part of the sentence but not the subject of it, TOPICは SUBJECTが PREDICATE is just a common construction. Taken as a whole, that Japanese sentence can be interpreted like "As for a thing this stupid, there does not exist a thing that I have said (there does not exist a thing I have ever said which is as stupid as this thing)."
Probably shouldn't attempt the second sentence... but... As for the second sentence...
・と particle is very commonly used with 言う.
・でも seems to be thrown in mostly just for emphasis (the "or what!" part), I think.
・言う itself is also probably being used more for emphasis than anything else, but it's hard to tell without knowing details of the original source of that sentence.
Wrote way too much and wrote nowhere near enough... Just hope not all of it was completely wrong (or too incomprehensible), as I've not studied grammar for a really long time and feel a bit like I'm just making things up as I go along, ahaha... ^^;- I saw your post earlier than this, but I was hoping I would get to read someone elses interesting answer instead of typing my own rambling nonsense. (Adding this post to make my other post not take up too much space...) :D
One important, missing point: In this case, "こんな" is not "this" but "such (as this)", so a lineal literal rendering would be: "Such a stupid thing" (こんな馬鹿なこと)は "has never been said" (言ったことが無い), with the double implication that it has never been said (a) by me + (b) till now. Or, yes, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever said".
This Tanaka Project is pretty great! I could find many different languages there. Very convenient. You knows a lot! You are really number one here. Are you Japanese teacher? This is good that you write a lot, it is more detailed and help to figure everything out.
The second sentence sounds better I've never said such a stupid thing. I wanted to watch some anime and use english translation, but if it will be like this then it does not make any sense. I will concentrate on things that could not even exist in Japanese. Such way of learning is not the best idea.- @aasiain, Originally I was going to just blurt out a word-for-word literal translation of the sentence, even avoiding word order changes. However, out of the various more literal ways I thought of writing it ("like this stupid thing", "this likeness stupid thing", "a thing stupid like this"), none of them would have been obvious to work out how to interpret it the way I meant it in my mind. I didn't think of using the word "such", which is a good way to word it.
You're right though. こんな is a shortened form of この様な (このような), so shouldn't really be translated simply as "this". I hoped to convey its meaning while still just using the word "this", by placing it before the next adjective as "this stupid", but I don't think it ended up being clear enough. ^^; - @DragonR33UA, I'm definitely not a teacher, but thanks for those kind words. ^^
I've simply been learning Japanese on-and-off for quite a few years, all completely self-taught. I've used a LOT of different websites, e-books, and other resources, so I've seen a with a wide variety of good or bad ways of explaining things. I've had to figure out a lot of stuff over those years and have tried to understand the reason and logic behind everything. I'm still just a regular person learning Japanese and have a very long way to go. For a start, I can barely even speak Japanese at all... XD - How many years do you learn Japanese?
- I learnt hiragana and katakana when I was around 14 years old, during French lessons in school. Next week I turn 30...
It sounds a lot worse than it is though. I said I'd been learning it "on-and-off", and I mean a lot more off than on. I've only been learning Japanese for fun, not for a specific purpose, so I've just been doing whatever I find interesting rather than trying to get proficient or pass any tests. 
stop comparing English to Japanese it was hard for me to learn English because I kept comparing convert Japanese to English when I should have tried to learn it like a new language was created.
don't compare learn like its a completely new language- Katsuro90.
The plan was to watch anime in original and see the english subtitles to understand at least something. This was the plan how to learn easy and fast. But when translation is so crazy then it does not make any sense. Because 50% of all translation will be wrong and I can't use these words in the real life.
This is like a great book, bestseller and then someone try to make a movie. Instead to make like it was in the book they try to make something different, something that director is thinking right. The result is movie becomes pretty bad and no one interesting about it. The people who translate should not create the wheel, it is already there. They should just simply translate it right. - mog86uk
hahaha, you learned hiragana and katakana during the french lessons. =D French teacher was not happy about it.
I am learning Japanese since two years and didn't get super really incredible result. Before I have been learning German, and it was pretty fun and interesting. for 3 years I was able to pass B2 and just one step to make a C1, which is enough for everything. Here in Japan after 2 years I am still beginner. I will die faster than learn this language.
I have to learn to pass JLPT und survive here. But somehow it does not really work out. 
Like mog said, the でも is for emphasis. I guess you could see it as expressing the extent of something. Could strengthen or soften an expression. The sentence above would imply "You go as far as saying there are absolutely no lessons at all?"
Another example where "でも" doesn't strictly mean "but":
暇なら、飲みにでも行きませんか？
Unless you're busy, won't you come get get a drink with me?
This one I guess has a flair of downplaying. "I know there are a lot of things you could be doing, but if you'd consider..."
Next, I present to you, the classic trap:
どうして付き合ってくれないの？わたしのこと、嫌いのかしら... ｡ﾟ･（>﹏<）･ﾟ｡
Why won't you go out with me? Do you... hate me?
× そんなことないよ！ Σ(゜ロ゜;)
No! I don't hate you! (WARNING! You'll be dating her against your will if you go down this route, because her next line will be "あら！やっぱり好きなんだね！" (((o(*ﾟ▽ﾟ*)o))) → "I knew it! You DO like me!")
✓ そうでもないけど...（すごく好きでもないし、付き合いたいなんて思わないよねー）┐(´∀｀)┌
I wouldn't go as far as saying that i hate you... (But I can't say I like you either. Not really interested in dating you...) It will still be a battle, but you're more likely to succeed if you handle the situation like this.
Not super helpful! But that's a few thoughts.
- DDDD WOW! You have found a lot of examples. Right now I am not that far I just passed JLPT N5 and moving forward to get N4. This is new for me. You have found very useful sentences from the real life. Japanese like to drink.
So でも is something like come on, lets do this...
hahahahaha. The second example is very funny hahaha =D You crack me up. Sentences pattern for the Dating are ready.
You will be the right dude to lost with somewhere in Japan with a lot of girls. =D
Thank you for your answer, it was very fun!
