Hello guys, i am just starting to learn kanji and i wanted to ask a question before i start and… - Feed Post by Mei_Komorio1
Hello guys, i am just starting to learn kanji and i wanted to ask a question before i start and all, so 日本 means japan, 本 this is called hon just like it is but 日 is supposed to be nichi or either jitsu but its pronunced ni in the word japan, the question is am i going to face lots of vocab that have readings that arent related to the kanji itself ?
posted by Mei_Komorio1
Comments 12
Not "lots", but there are some words that have a singular reading, most of them are pretty usual so you will probably learn them quickly. Such as 明日 (Ashita - Tomorrow), you will use it so much that you quickly get the hang.
Thanks alot !- You're welcome to ask whenever you want.
日 ＋ 本 = にっぽん
︵ ︵
に ほ
ち ん
︶ ︶
・The ち in にち turns to っ, making にっ
・The ほ in ほん turns to ぽ, making ぽん
This is called sequential voicing (rendaku) and it happens in many kanji compounds. Here's an example you might already know:
八（はち）meaning "eight (8)"
百（はゃく）meaning "hundred (100)"
↓
八百（はっぴゃく）meaning "eight hundred (800)"
・はち, before a "h", sound changes to はっ
・ひゃく, after a small っ, the "h" sound changes to "p" with ゜ to ぴゃく
nichi + hon = nippon
hachi + hyaku = happyaku
Don't ask me about why 日 is just "に" in にほん though... :P
If I had to guess, I assume this is just an alternative way of combining those two sounds にち and ほん... Instead of changing ち to っ to merge it with the "h" starting sound of the next kanji, maybe this alternative was used of just not saying ち at all—therefore not needing to deal with the "h" starting sound of the next kanji.- So like the small tsu is really common between compounds , right ?
- Yep. That's the main reason for why small っ even exists. ^^
Looking back through my post there are a few things I need to correct. Like somehow I accidentally wrote はゃく instead of ひゃく in one of the places. XD
Also, I should probably have made it clear that にほん and にっぽん are both perfectly valid ways of saying 日本 "Japan", just that you'll hear にほん a lot more often—especially for words like 日本語（にほんご）"Japanese language".
Another thing I should correct is where I said this sound change is known as "rendaku" or "sequential voicing". That is a slightly different type of sound change. I wasn't really thinking when I typed it. The term for the sound change taking place for にち+ほん becoming にっぽん is actually "gemination". This is where consonants are coupled together to form long consonants.
I should probably have just left out these corrections, as this just clogs up the social feeds, but I don't like knowingly leaving misleading info in my posts. Really wish we had an edit post function. ^^; - Me too, mog. I thought about saying about the sound changing in the words, but as her question looked like being about "Nihon", i tried to be direct and not to make the things become more confused xD. (You explained pretty well, tough ^-^).
However, about the reason it is called "Nihon" with just a に is because it is a name, that is, a proper noun. In Japanese are not 2 kanji reading, but 3, 音読み(Onyomi), 訓読み (Kunyomi) and 名乗り (Nanori), the last one is a reading for names and are just used for names.
If you are a avid reader or writer you'll see nanori readings everywhere ! Japanese names also combine on and kun reading with nanori, for example, the name 鏡実 can be read as かがみ for combining かが from nanori 鏡 and み from kunyomi 実, even though 鏡 is already read as かがみ. - Oh wow this is freakingly confusing ;-; but i will get to understand it later for sure, thanks mog and yoshi !
- Yeah, you sure will. Personally, this is one of the motives i love Japanese more than any other language, the freedom to create.
- @yoshitsukune, I certainly know about nanori readings. However, にっぽん is by far the older reading of the two. にほん is simply a changed pronunciation of the same name. I wouldn't describe the reason for 日 being read に in にほん as simply due to it being a nanori reading given to that kanji.
Otherwise, wouldn't you have to say「にっ」in にっぽん is also a nanori reading of 日? I view it as being that the readings of 日 and 本 in 日本 are both read by ON readings, just that the ON reading にち changes slightly in the compound kanji name.
Another old way of saying the name of Japan is 日の本（ひのもと）, 本（もと）"origin" of the 日（ひ）"sun". And the abbreviation of 日本 "Japan" to a single kanji is 日 pronounced in this form as にち.
If にっ were to be regarded as being nanori reading instead, then what about in the word for "diary" 日記（にっき）—would this にっ then have to be called a nanori reading too?
Kanji is fun. ^^ - I was just referring to the に, the にっ is because of the "gemination" that you explained.
The reading にっぽん is indeed the older, the にほん was born because of the dialect of Kantou, and that's why in some words they differ, such as 東京の日本橋(とうきょうのにほんばし) and 大阪の日本橋(おおさかのにっぽんばし), because the geographic differences.
The difference of にほん being a slang-way of speaking about Japan and turning more popular than にっぽん just because the center of Japan said that way was because it wasn't grammatically incorrect, because 日 can be read as に as a Nanori. And that's why it isn't gemination but a Nanori reading.
I sure imagined that you knew the Nanori reading, just used that kind of speaking so that people that doesn't know could understand (Including the creator of the post). (o´▽`o)ﾉ 
I swear, u must be japanese to just know some of this stuff. Well Mei, had enough yet lol? Good luck to u both.
