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Please correct Taiwan, Province of China. Taiwan does NOT belong to China. - Feed Post by notsalty

Please correct Taiwan, Province of China.
Taiwan does NOT belong to China.
Most commonly other countries use: Taiwan, or Republic of China. Thank you!
posted by notsalty

Comments 31

  • mog86uk
    Strange. There is a VERY big difference between "Province of China" and "Republic of China". I don't remember the Taiwan listing always being worded that way here on JCJP.

    I would be pretty unhappy about this too if I was from there.
  • mog86uk
    Okay, now my own country listing has changed itself to "Italy"! For a second I was very unhappy thinking it could have been the Ireland flag, lol... :P
    Still, I keep trying to change it back to "United Kingdom", but it ignores the setting. -_-

    Do you know if it always said "Province of China" on here? I'm wondering if maybe something might have changed on the site within the last 24 hours causing these problems.
  • notsalty
    I wasn't around for pretty long. Now I checked and it's fine :)
    I'm from Hungary, I only came here to Tw 20 months ago.
    As far as I remember, it was province at least last spring when I used the site more actively.
    It's not your fault I guess, Chinese (government) side blocks Taiwan from using Taiwan / Republic of China in international organizations/meetings.
    Taiwan there appears as Chinese Taipei, which is ridicolous. ^^
    But, sometimes seemingly going as far as Province...
    This years Olympic Games you can check out "Chinese Taipei", lol.

    Thanks for update=]
  • AnaJ
    taiwan has independent government, but it is part of China.
  • mog86uk
    @AnaJ, Its own independent government, its own currency, its own passports, its own border controls, its own Olympics team, its own national flag and national anthem, its own army and navy, ...

    When you compare Taiwan-China situation to the situation of Spain-EU, it should be hard not to view Taiwan is its own country. (Yes, sadly similar to comparing situation of UK-EU, except we still have our own currency and we haven't lost as many border controls.) :D
  • mog86uk
    @notsalty, I noticed this a few days ago that it was fixed. No idea what caused it to change. But good to hear this is sorted out for you. ^^
  • AnaJ
    @mog86uk Yeah, I know. But Taiwan is not really considered a country on its own; otherwise, there wouldn't be peaple trying to gain independency for Taiwan. And I don't think their strange situation could be compared to UK-US and ES-EU, since those DO are considered to be "countries" (except EU, that's a continent).
  • AnaJ
    @mog86uk, still I understand taiwanese people not wanting to be part of China, China still has a lot of things that need to be fixed despite it's appearent economic progress. It's similar to país vasco or Cataluña here in Spain, they even have their own language, but the reason to want independency as a country is always the difference of life cuality o life level. The richer ones feels as if they are being or will be robed by the poor ones.
  • AnaJ
    its*, etc
  • beeant
    Really sorry to you and all Taiwanese. Where did you find this? I tried to search the lessons database but couldn't find any.
  • mog86uk
    @Sakamoto, The situation with the Republic of China (Taiwan) is MUCH less straightforward than that. They have other reasons why they aren't too keen to go down the route of making an *official* declaration of being an independent country. Taiwan is "independent" already though, as they don't depend in any way on the PRC (mainland China) nor are they ruled over by them in any way. There's a lot of history to learn about to understand why their situation isn't something as simple as "not wanting to be part of China". ^^

    And my comments about a comparison between Taiwan-China and ES-EU/UK-EU were intended mostly as just a dig at the EU and our stupid politicians. However the EU is definitely not a continent...
  • mog86uk
    This snapshot (April 2015) of Notsalty's profile page shows where it was worded this way - as the wording of the main country name string in user profile pages of Taiwanese users. It was still saying "Taiwan, Province of China" as recently as a few months ago, but I think it now says "Taiwan" in all cases?

    I assume the country names are retrieved from an external resource? So this resource must have changed the string themselves, probably after many complaints from internet users in Taiwan. :P
  • mog86uk
  • AnaJ
    @mog86uk, yes, of course, Eu es not a continent geografically. I meant politically, sorry about that...And, I was over simplifing their reasons too. But all in all, it all comes down to economic interests, turism from China mainland (more money...), politics, etc...= "not too keen to go down the route of making an *official* declaration of being an independent country." So, if it is neither a official country nor .'beloging to China', what is it? Land of no one?
  • AnaJ
    is* not es....
  • AnaJ
    That's why I think notsalty's statement (Taiwan doea not belong to China) is not correct, not yet at least.
  • mog86uk
    By that, do you mean you think Taiwan belongs to the country now called the "People's Republic of China" (PRC)? Is Taiwan a part of the PRC? Did Japan, who ruled Taiwan from 1895 until the end of WW2, give Taiwan over specifically to the PRC instead of the ROC in 1952?

    I'd call it its own country. It has been opperating as such for long enough, even if—for various reasons—it hasn't officially declared itself to be. Not many countries around the world officially recognise Taiwan as a country, but this has a lot more to do with this being a pre-requirement of maintaining diplomatic relations with the PRC than because of anything else. There's a fair bit of complicated history which needs to be learned about first. I became interested to try to learn more about Taiwan a couple of years ago, after meeting a Taiwanese person here in the UK, so I've already read up a little about this and tried to make some sense of the situation. ^^
  • mog86uk
    But anyway, that doesn't have much to do with learning Japanese so here's something a little more on topic: 台湾【たいわん】or 中華民国【ちゅうかみんこく】— I wonder which is used for the name of Taiwan nowadays in Japanese...
  • AnaJ
    @mog86uk, China doesn't just one politic party, there are two PRC and ROC. I meant China as a whole, not just PRC. A political party is not a country. But you are right, it doesn's have to do with learning Japanese.
  • AnaJ
    doesn't has...
  • AnaJ
  • AnaJ
    Well, in deed non of them make reference to their political parties PRC or ROC, I should have said that China inclides both communist and nationalist parties
  • AnaJ
    both just says republic
  • AnaJ
  • DongToucher
    Actually Taiwan is, and always will be a province of our Overlords and Saviour, Japan.
  • Cherushi
    from my experience 台湾 is most commonly used
  • notsalty
    I really don't want to continue this debate, just I'd point out few things:
    First Taiwan was granted provincial status in 1887, before it had belonged to Fujian.
    The island under imperial government only meant the western coastline, the rest was seperated by a special border system to prevent "raw aboriginal" raids.
    Japanese imperial government started to open up the island from 1895, but faced resistance/wars and incidents and could pacify the afformentioned western part with "cooked" aboriginals and Taiwanese /han (incl. hakka) and han+aboriginal mixed pop. only by 1910s.
    The rest by 1930s, but not entirely, although after Wushan noone ever questioned Japanese authority again, until 1944/45.
    So it sounds weird, but the 98-99% of today's "Taiwan" was created by Japanese.
    Taiwan has approx. 550k (partly mixed) aboriginal pop. in about 20 ethnic groups (some closely related, some totally different, although all are genetically malayo-polinesian).
    and last:
    "The PRC asserts itself to be the sole legitimate government of China, and claims Taiwan as its 23rd province, even though the PRC itself has never had control of Taiwan or other ROC-held territories." it sums it up pretty much. ^^
    The Republic of China left/been kindly asked to leave the UN in 1971. :)
    A quasi criteria to be a country.
  • AnaJ
    I know, I can accept that Taiwan does not belong to the communist party, but you cannot deny you belong to China. The original ROC's leader himself is from Zhejiang, China mainland. Besides, in the begining ROC was governing the entire China, so you saying that Taiwan doesn't belong to China really confuse me.
  • AnaJ
    It's sad but a quasi criteria to be a country is not enough to be really considered a country.
  • maxxslatt
    AnaJ is right; Taiwan has been part of China for a long time now. A lot of people think it is illegitimate and a lot of Taiwanese people want to separate but it has been taken over by the Republic of China since the 40s I think. PRC I think recognizes Taiwan as its own country but then again they aren't huge fans of the ROC (naturally).
  • notsalty
    Sorry, I must clarify this.
    ROC is not = Taiwan in this context.
    ROC is the former name of what we know today as China or PRC ***in pre-1949 era.*** But !

    From 1912 ROC was a country with semi-authoritarian system (with elements of democracy, resembling to some pre-wwII systems in EU) led by KMT, the strongest party after the revolution(s) of 1911/12, and this party still exist today.

    After either WWII or 1949, KMT remained the representative of China which was officially still ROC in the eye of international community, although possessed cca. 0,3% of its original territory from 1949.

    It lasted until 1970/71 and could last because leadership of ROC served as a stronghold of anti-communism and was explicitly supported by US. Please look up Kissinger + Nixon - or Forest Gump for reference.

    PRC switched place with ROC (then on Taiwan) in UN on the turn of 1971, [one China principle] and soon mainly because of money politics, countries suspended official relations with now Taiwan, but still ROC via 大使館 level.

    After November 1945, KMT governed Taiwan, which party replaced Japanese-Taiwanese elit, and transfered nearly all the power to more loyal mainland Chinese 'refugees'. (15%~ of the total population after immigration completed). Taiwanese prior and under the Japanese administration used their own "minnan" language. As a top down decision it was forcefully replaced by Mandarin [similar, but not same to the current official language of China, PRC]. Way of thinking has changed a lot since KMT's arrival and relations became overly complicated (...)

    Taiwan and the nearby islands (not all) were the domain of 清皇帝s.
    I think PRC cannot be considered the successor of any 清皇帝s in any way and they would also deny it. They are anti-feudal and anti-monarchist.

    Imperial Japan seized Taiwan and neighbouring islands from 光緒帝 in 1894/5, the founding National Congress of the CPC was held on 23–31 July 1921.

    Off the scientific field: PRC may have the right to claim Taiwan, based on the war they waged with KMT, however it is unjust to native population, who are thanks to the 'power-level' differences and the existence of KMT are stripped from their self-determination.
    [and being threatened, blackmailed and bribed].
    Taiwan before the final Japanese takeover in 1895 proclaimed its independence (lasted for less than two weeks).

    Taiwan is not a country, it is a status quo territory, that has de facto sovereignty and international presence.
    De jure, because of the KMT-provided continuity and its geopolitical importance it is unlikely to become independent as long as the CPC/PRC exists.

    Please let's finish this here :)