Bleh. One day I'll remember the reading for 哺乳類... This is one of the only questions on here that… - Feed Post by mog86uk
Bleh. One day I'll remember the reading for 哺乳類... This is one of the only questions on here that I can never remember no matter how long I think about it.
I think it's because that first kanji 哺 is one I've not learnt before. It is a Jouyou kanji, but it is one of the 196 kanji which were most recently added to the list. I notice that it looks like the kanji for catch 捕 but with a mouth 口 instead of a hand 扌, which is funny considering the kanji's meaning. So 捕 is a hand catching something, and 哺 is a mouth catching something? :D
Just got to remember now that catch 捕 onyomi is ほ (like in 逮捕 "たいほ"), from its right side component 甫 which is also read ほ, and that this is the same with 哺 also being read ほ. Now that I've learnt it properly, I have to definitely remember it next time!
哺乳類 = ほにゅうるい ^^
I think it's because that first kanji 哺 is one I've not learnt before. It is a Jouyou kanji, but it is one of the 196 kanji which were most recently added to the list. I notice that it looks like the kanji for catch 捕 but with a mouth 口 instead of a hand 扌, which is funny considering the kanji's meaning. So 捕 is a hand catching something, and 哺 is a mouth catching something? :D
Just got to remember now that catch 捕 onyomi is ほ (like in 逮捕 "たいほ"), from its right side component 甫 which is also read ほ, and that this is the same with 哺 also being read ほ. Now that I've learnt it properly, I have to definitely remember it next time!
哺乳類 = ほにゅうるい ^^
posted by mog86uk
Comments 8
Both come from Chinese. 哺 in Chinese basically means "to feed", that's why it has a mouth "口", while "to catch", you need a hand "扌".
Chinese as a typical hieroglyphic writing system, you may find their origins along with the changes in characters in these links: http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e593ba.html, http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e68d95.html. On the right hand side of the pictures/symbols, it looks like a typical paddy field in China with a piece of paddy/rice growing out.
That site is a useful one I have not seen before. Thanks. I have already been interested in etymology and Chinese characters.
甫 = http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e794ab.html
用 = http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e794a8.html
父 = http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e788b6.html
To me though, the right hand side part 甫 in its 小篆 form looks clearly like it is made up of 用 + 父. Not 田 + the sprout part of 生?
田 = http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e794b0.html
生 = http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e7949f.html
But then looking at 甫 on the following link, I'm not sure what to make of the contrast between the 金文 characters and the 甲骨文 ones:
http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=%E7%94%AB- Chinese is my native language. I never said 甫 is a combination of 田 and 生. I only said the figure for 甫 is a piece of paddy (rice) sprout growing out of a paddy field (田), which I consider signifies food (rice is the main food for Chinese), and is relevant to a combinatioin of 口 and 甫: 哺 (to feed). I don't think it is relevant to 生 in terms of forming the character 甫.
The original form of 用 is 甬, that means "(big) bell". Both 用 and 父 are not relevant to 哺, but 田 is.
As you can see, there is no big difference between 金文 and 甲骨文, it is because they are supposed to be similar. They are both characters evolved from older form of hieroglyphs. 甲骨文 (carved on oracle bones) is after primeval carving symbols, is considered as the oldest/earlist system for Chinese character, and should be more ancient than 金文 (carved on bronzes, should be the evolved version of 甲骨文). - The only language I have English. I have a lot to learn. I mentioned that stuff in my previous post already knowing your native language is Chinese. I knew you would likely be able to give an interesting reply. ^^
When you said "on the right hand side of the pictures/symbols" for some reason I thought you were talking about the content listed on the right hand part of the page, which is where the 小篆 form was listed. So I was failing at reading my own native language... XD
With that confusion out the way, everything makes sense. I understand what you meant.
I know it's irrelevant to what we were talking about, but I don't understand how the original form of 用 was 甬? I have already noticed that this is explained on this page but I can't read Chinese:
http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e794a8.html
However, on that chineseetymology.org site it shows lots of oracle bone script forms of 用 and none at all for 甬. It also says something weird on the 用 page about it having something to do with water bucket 桶.
甬 = http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=甬
用 = http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=用
And then on another site I use, it sounds like it is saying it's the opposite way round:
http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/character-etymology.php?zi=%E7%94%A8
I've probably just not correctly read what you said or what those sites say. I don't even know how the the conversation got onto this from where it started. ^^; - I wanted to upload the symbols in picture form to avoid confusion, but I can't upload pictures after the 1st comment, that's why I had to say "pictures/symbols" and post the links. But all Chinese characters are symbols for you. ^^
The Chinese explanation under the big bell image says the original form of 用 is 甬 in this link: http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e794a8.html. I don't know exactly the reason, maybe for simplicity?! You can see the evolved Chinese characters are always simpler than the older versions. Or as a phonetic loan like the other page says?!
A water bucket is 桶: http://www.xiuwenyuan.com/ziyuan/e6a1b6.html. Old water bucket in China is made of wood, that's why it has a 木.
I think I'd rather consider http://www.xiuwenyuan.com is more accurate than the other site http://www.yellowbridge.com. As in http://www.xiuwenyuan.com, the part you are reading seem to be images scanned from a Chinese book.
Good luck! - Thanks for all your responses. I was interested in what book(s) that site was scanning its images from. Some of the scans definitely appears to be of pages in this book:
http://www.purpleculture.net/illustrated-chinese-characters-stories-of-1000-chinese-characters-p-14941/
That book seems to be based on the Shuowen Jiezi (说文解字), which is a dictionary originally written in the 2nd century AD? It could therefore be likely that modern sources will have more accurate explanations thanks to recent archeological findings of bronze and oracle bone writing. I can't find out if all the scans are from that book though, so maybe that one about the bell is from a different source.
Anyway. Since I can't read Chinese, I'm probably not going to understand it accurately myself even if I spend ages trying to find out. It was an interesting conversation anyway. Thanks. ^^ - Yeah, this book 《图解〈说文解字〉画说汉字:1000个汉字的故事》(Illustrated Chinese Characters: Stories of 1000 Chinese Characters) does look interesting, even for Chinese. When we were young, we only learned some pictographic examples, we didn't learn all pictographs, but we got some ideas how it works though. Ok, thanks.
