Why do people hate me for learning kanji the traditional way? "Omg use… - Feed Post by KenjiSama
Why do people hate me for learning kanji the traditional way?
"Omg use Heisig!!"
" You're wasting your time!! I know 500 kanji after studying for only 4 months!!!"
" That's the wrong way to learn kanji!!"
Omg stfu!!! Let me learn the way I want to learn!!! It works for me, so don't criticize me!!
I've been learning kanji for two months, and I know 700 now.....wtf people....
Remember kids:
If someone tells you that your method of learning is horrible and their way is better, beat the shit out of them for me!!!!!
"Omg use Heisig!!"
" You're wasting your time!! I know 500 kanji after studying for only 4 months!!!"
" That's the wrong way to learn kanji!!"
Omg stfu!!! Let me learn the way I want to learn!!! It works for me, so don't criticize me!!
I've been learning kanji for two months, and I know 700 now.....wtf people....
Remember kids:
If someone tells you that your method of learning is horrible and their way is better, beat the shit out of them for me!!!!!
posted by KenjiSama
Comments 29
Amen!
what is your way of leaning kanji ?
ur way is awsome dont worry bout them other haters.
500 kanji in 4 months? I haven't gotten to 500 yet but I'm sure I am learning faster than that, and I'm straight up memorizing them by writing them out over and over again. I tried Heisig but I find that more difficult then simply memorizing. Keep doing what you are doing, shortcut methods may work for some people but not everyone. The best method to learn Kanji is the method that works for you.
what is.the heisig method? i never heard of it?- what is.the heisig method? i never heard of it?
Heisig is basically making up an entire story for each kanji. For a 30$ book, you would think it would teach all the kanji, but no....
It doesn't even teach you how to write!! Good thing I never bought it, and was highly considering buying it too....
Very simply a waste of time and money.
There is reason why Heisig's method is so famous, you know. Just because you couldn't get used to it, doesn't mean it's a "waste of time and money". I learned kanji using this book, and I guarantee, you will never forget the meaning of each kanji. First, I don't know where did you get this idea that it doesn't teach you how to write. It does show the stroke order for every kanji and the basic rules in the first "part" of the book, then later it lets you figure it out for your own, for practice. Second, what you mean "teach all the kanji"? The book covers most of the 常用漢字. You were expecting to teach what, 10,000 kanji? lol
@deadmo
He teaches kanji using radicals. Basically most of the kanji are just some radicals together. So, if you know the meaning of each radical, you can create a story to help you memorize it. I'll give you an example.
Here we have the kanji for woman: 女. And now we have the kanji for child: 子.
Now let's analyze the kanji for love, to like: 好. Notice how it's the radical for woman and the radical for child? With this, you can imagine this kanji representing "the love of a mother(woman) for her child".
See? It's hard to forget a meaning after this, because even if you don't recognize some kanji at first, you can always "break it down", and most of the times you'll end up remembering the story connecting the radicals.- 30$ for a book that doesn't teach all the Joyo Kanji? No thank you!
Lol it is a waste of time and money. You make it sound like it's bad to forget the meaning of kanji. There is a reason for SRS because you will if you don't review.
Go to many forums, not many recommend heisig..
No I wasn't expecting to learn 10,000 kanji lol, but it should've at least covered all of them, but a little more that are not common use, but you still see them in books and such.
Making up stories for one kanji is a waste of time. It's easier, and more effectient, to use google images searching with that kanji.
You can't forget a meaning if you use it often and review it. Save your money and don't buy heisig. 
"Remember kids:
If someone tells you that your method of learning is horrible and their way is better, beat the shit out of them for me!!!!!"
Don't do self harm, please KenjiSama.- How, and why would I do self harm? I'm not saying my way is best. Actually, I am. Because my way is best, as its MY way. It's how I learn.
What I'm saying. The way you learn is best for you. Simple.
That's insensitive of you to say something like that. I know people that do self harm. 
Yeah it's kinda useless lol, since kanji can have many pronunciation and heisig only targets learning to write them with a story added on, some people can learn that way but I learn better through using a kanji over and over again (be it in a sentence or using it a lot)- No, you're doing exactly what you said. Saying "the way you learn is best for you" and then saying "your way is bad and a waste of time and money!11!" is a complete contradiction. How do you even fail to realize that? lol
In case you don't know, it teaches over 2000 kanji in the first volume and another 1000 on volume 3. Plus there's the volume 2 which teaches the readings.
It IS a bad thing to forget the meaning of a kanji. Why wouldn't it be?
RTK gives the best foundation to kanji you can get. Not only you will never forget the meanings, it's fast. There's a clear objective, and you achieve it easily. Care to explain why exactly do you HAVE to learn readings at the same time?
- Also, one thing that I forgot to mention is, please, tell me where you read people saying not to learn radicals. It is widely accepted as one of the best ways to learn.
- No its not a contradiction. I suggest you re-read what I said. "The way you learn is best for you" -- That is true.
"Your way is bad and a waste of time and money."-- is true. Because it's not my way of learning. I don't learn that way, and most, if not all people don't learn that way either. How do YOU even fail to realize that?
No one ever said anything about radicals. Please tell me where you read that people saying not to learn radicals. No one ever said you have to learn readings at the same time. I don't even know the readings, because it's a waste of time and you learn from vocabulary.
Btw, that's 30$ for each extra book. Like others have said, you can do that all for free.
"RTK gives the best foundation to kanji you can get. Not only you will never forget the meanings, it's fast."
You don't know how untrue that statement is. First, making a story for one kanji is NOT fast. Second, where is your facts supporting this? A quick google search, and you can see not many people use Heisig.
1. Because they can use their own mnemonics.
2. It's a waste of time, I'm not the only one that says this.
3. Expensive for something anyone could've written in 2 hours.
It isn't a bad thing to forget. Everyone forgets things. Tae Kim says so as well. If you remember forgetting, you're already learning.
I suggest you get a pair of reading glasses lol. - Okay, if you don't understand this time, I'll try to draw something for you.
Let's see:
1.You get pissed because people tell you they think method X is a better way to learn.
2.You then say that there's no best way. The best way is the one which works for you.
3.Then you say the method X is a "waste of time and money".
4."Making up stories for one kanji is a waste of time. It's easier, and more effectient, to use google images searching with that kanji."
HOW is 3 different from 1? You're acting like statement 2 is a perfect shield, so you can criticize every other way of learning. If that was true, you would've said it with others words. If that was true, you would know that you have no right to affirm anything, like in 4, because each case is different. But no, you just wanted to offend everyone who uses the RTK method. "Hey, your way of learning is shi**y, you're wasting your time and money, but hey, whichever works best for you!". And then you complain when people tell you the same. What kind of logic is that?!
But whatever, this is not what I want to talk about.
Well, radicals is kinda like half of the point of the book. Radicals and mnemonics. So if it's a "bad way to learn", what can we infer from that?
No, you can't do that for free, because there's a strict order to learn those kanji, starting with the simple radicals and escalating. The readings part was directed to Xiffy.
Uuhh, why making up a story is not fast exactly? It doesn't take more than a couple minutes. It is sure faster than writing the same kanji a thousand times.
God, you really don't know what you're talking about. With RTK you HAVE to come up with your mnemonics. He gives the radicals, he gives you the order to learn and he gives you the meaning. You come up with the mnemonic. Saying "something anyone could've written in 2 hours." is a really, really dumb statement.
You keep talking about "others". You want to talk about sources, right? So I'll give you some.
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2008/01/31/final-thoughts-on-remembering-the-kanji/
http://www.fluentin3months.com/2k-kanji/
http://japaneselevelup.com/how-to-use-anki-to-master-japanese-part-1-kanji/
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/how-to-learn-kanji-using-an-srs
http://www.tofugu.com/2010/03/25/the-5-biggest-mistakes-people-make-when-learning-kanji/
I could give you a lot more, but these ones are enough, and highly reliable.
They will all say the same thing: RTK is a great tool if properly used.
Dude, I'm not trying to convert anyone to RTK. I just don't want people spreading any kind of information here, especially when it's a beginner (not an offense, just a fact). You're not helping anyone this way.
- Sorry, not *any kind of, but *random information
- 1. Actually, you have my words twisted. Re-read it.
2. How do you know my level? Do you watch me study everyday? Are you inside my brain? Have you tested me? No.
3. I'm not pissed off. I'm actually amused. You trying to prove me wrong, when you're contradicting yourself.
4. In your previous posts, you never said anything about SRS, I DID.
5. No one said for you to write kanji "a thousand times." I write them three and move on.
6. In those couple of minutes, you could have learned a couple of kanji.
7. "God, you really don't know what you're talking about" -- is a really really dumb statement.
8. Seriously dumb ass, I said Heisig method is shit, because it's not my way of learning. What part of that do you NOT understand?
9. I suggest you work on your English. You obviously can't comprehend what I'm talking about.
10. "Dude, I'm not trying to convert anyone to RTK." Then wtf are you doing then?
11. "No, you can't do that for free, because there's a strict order to learn those kanji, starting with the simple radicals and escalating."
UGH. Are you this stupid? You can learn kanji in any order you want. Some start with things relating to elements, some start with numbers, some start with science, some start with enviroment, etc, etc.
You don't have to learn radicals. I haven't, and I notice absolutely no difference. The world has evolved. I can literally almost write a kanji and it shows up in jisho or google translate.
12. If you don't understand this time, seriously stop learning Japanese and study English. Everyone else can comprehend what I'm saying, except you.
Do us all a favor and shut up. You're embarrassing yourself. You're not helping anyone with your nonsense. You see, none of us use Heisig. You want some "advanced" users as proof?
Mog and kakka don't use Heisig. Kakka has recently graduated from a Japanese university. Mog learns Japanese as a hobby and is damn good at it.
Fluent in 3 months is basically a scam. Promising you that you can learn any language in 3 months is bogus. Use google. Tae Kim is hit and miss. He does not agree with RTK, as it contradicts HIS learning style and method.
I, and everyone else tired of getting notifications of your stupidity, recommend that you just stop replying. Yeah, I am pissed off, because I have to waste my time replying to you. Trying to stop you, from spreading "any information". Hell, you might be beginner. How would I know? Like seriously idiot....just shut up...
- It really is embarassing. Well I do know your level, because you post your stupid questions every single day. Not only your questions, it's like you think this website is your diary. Like two weeks you were like: "look, my first sentence!11!". You can barely write a full sentence in japanese. So yes, anyone can guess your level.
It is embarassing, because you don't have any arguments anymore. You don't have to believe me, but try to disprove those articles then. You even cited Tae Kim's name before, now he is unreliable? haha what a joke.
I'm an idiot right? So why do you feel you have to answer?
But thanks for the advice. I'll improve my English. It's just a lot to keep up with you know, speaking 4 languages and all.
"Don't raise your voice. Improve your argument."
- "Post stupid questions ever single day."
1. I'm not on this website every single day. 2. How do think this website is like my diary.
Two weeks ago was two weeks ago. I barely knew any grammar at all.
It's embarrassing, because you keep replying. Me having to correct you all the time, because you don't comprehend what everyone can.
Yes you're an idiot. I have to answer because you are spreading false information, and twisting my words and contradicting yourself. Also, freedom of speech. Problem?
"speaking 4 languages and all." -- No one believes you for a second.
"Don't try to tell me what level I am. You know nothing about me."
Sorry I have a life to get back to, unlike you. I don't stalk people on the internet. This is my post, I can answer and comment whenever I want to. You have a problem? Don't post, like I said. You have "4 languages to keep up with", then go do that.
- "Post stupid questions ever single day."
1. I'm not on this website every single day. 2. How do think this website is like my diary.
Two weeks ago was two weeks ago. I barely knew any grammar at all.
It's embarrassing, because you keep replying. Me having to correct you all the time, because you don't comprehend what everyone can.
Yes you're an idiot. I have to answer because you are spreading false information, and twisting my words and contradicting yourself. Also, freedom of speech. Problem?
"speaking 4 languages and all." -- No one believes you for a second.
"Don't try to tell me what level I am. You know nothing about me."
Sorry I have a life to get back to, unlike you. I don't stalk people on the internet. This is my post, I can answer and comment whenever I want to. You have a problem? Don't post, like I said. You have "4 languages to keep up with", then go do that.
Yes, what a joke. You are the joke. A very bad one at that. - Also:
I am free to post whatever the fuck I like to. You have a problem with it??? No one ever said that you are obligated to comment, say, or do anything.
I am flattered. You remembered my first sentence. How much do you love me? Sorry, I'm a minor and not into pedobears. - Also:
I am free to post whatever the fuck I like to. You have a problem with it??? No one ever said that you are obligated to comment, say, or do anything.
I am flattered. You remembered my first sentence. How much do you love me? Sorry, I'm a minor and not into pedobears. - You guys need to chill lol, in my honest opinion, heisig is just one of many ways to learn, for me though it's probably the least efficient way to learn. That's because you're only learning how to write a kanji without studying the readings or meanings. Using a story or sentence to remember a kanji is also ineffective because you should aim to memorise kanji as a reading or a word, then whenever you come to reading it on the Internet or something you're not say there for 5 minutes surfing through the hundreds of kanji stories in your head lol. Learning radicals is quite helpful in identifying kanji but I can't see how it would be helpful with learning kanji you've never seen before, nor can they help you with the readings.
- @Xiffy
僕？全然怒ってない :P
I understand your point of view. You're right about the readings, but mistaken about meanings. Like I said before, the whole point of the book is teach meanings that you'll never forget. Actually, using a story, or image, or whatever is highly effective. It's called a mnemonic, and it's a method that has been around for centuries, long before Heisig. Actually, what RTK does is just make it easier for you to create them. It's not a complete new or different type of study, and you should combine it with other methods. You probably use mnemonics in your study, even if don't realize it. I'd recommend to take a look at reviews, at those links that I posted and at the book itself (you can download the first chapter for free).
Kenji... (~_~;)
(and Beee a little bit too...)
Kenji, you did say way too many silly unnecessary things. I was keeping out of this mud-slinging-fest, even though I had
strong opinions on it, until I noticed you used my name and claimed to speak for my me, making it seem like I might be on your
side of this argument.
Beee lives in Brazil where the official language is Portuguese; he is speaking to you in English; he is learning Japanese on
this site about as long as I have... So when he says he also speaks a fourth language, it's hardly sensible to out-of-hand
call him a liar by claiming for all of us that none of us believe him.
Beee has been learning Japanese on this site about as long as I have. I wouldn't be surprised at all if his Japanese is better
than mine (not really much of an achievement). It wasn't really anything to object to when he said about you still being a
beginner, because your profile says you only started learning Japanese "November 11th 2014" (only 9 months ago).
And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this at all, but you can easily see on your profile page how many posts you
wrote in the last month. This post was your 36th since the same day last month (within 31 days). So it wasn't crazy to think
you post every day. Again, there's nothing wrong with posting regularly. Most people on this site are far too quiet, so it's
good that some people like posting a lot. ^^
I will end up writing too much if I try to address all the other things I have strong opinions on. So onto Heisig's book
itself.
Heisig's Remembering The Kanji (first volume, 6th edition) is definitely extremely popular. You can't really say no one recommends it, especially since you said there are already people recommending it to you. Here are the current "best seller"
rankings on Amazon for the Japanese language learning books sections, for RTK1 6th edition:
・Amazon US = 3rd (out of 1,420 books)
・Amazon UK = 7th (out of 4,141 books)
・Amazon Canada = 1st !! (out of 1,218 books)
If you read the introduction pages of RTK, you would know that it emphasises using things similar to SRS such as using flash
cards. It also emphasises repetition of writing kanji on paper (something I do not like doing, but something which I know you,
Kenji, do like).
I haven't really used the RTK books before, but I have a lot of respect for its method and principle. The most successful
method I used for learning kanji is Slime Forest Adventure. The basic principles of SFA are very similar to RTK, except that
you type on a keyboard rather than write on paper. SFA teaches kanji in a similar order to RTK. SFA also uses mnemonics in a
similar way to RTK, but in its own style.- Bleh, I accidentally hit the comment "button" on that post and then the site crashed for ages immediately afterwards. I meant to fix the spacing problems first and trim it down a bit. ;_;
I'll still post the rest of the comment below, even though I wrote too much already and the first part looks like a mess... - Now for some important background history about Remembering The Kanji Vol.1:
1946
・"Touyou" (当用) kanji list in use in Japan. This list contained 1,850 kanji.
1977
・1st ed of RTK1 released but titled "Adventures in Kanji-land". It is stated in later editions that it contained 2,042 kanji, including all 1,850 kanji that were in the Touyou list. There is a good chance that at least one Touyou kanji (璽) was actually missing from the first edition, because it is the only one missing in later editions. Since he didn't have computers to create the book on back then, it is reasonable that at least one kanji might have been missed out.
1981
・Touyou list was replaced with the "Jouyou" (常用) kanji list. This list contains all the 1,850 Touyou kanji (except one kanji being switched to a simplified form from 燈 to 灯) + 95 additional kanji.
1985
・2nd ed released.
1986
・3rd ed released.
2001
・4th ed released.
2007
・5th ed released (still contains 2,042 kanji in this edition).
2010
・5 kanji from the current Jouyou list were removed (勺 銑 脹 錘 匁), leaving 1,940 kanji.
・196 aditional kanji were added. 39 of these kanji were already in RTK1, meaning 157 of them were missing.
・Jouyou kanji list now contains 2,136 kanji.
2011
・6th ed released, now containing exactly 2,200 kanji.
・156 out of the 157 missing new Jouyou kanji were added to the book.
・The kanji 璽 was also added, which is the only Touyou kanji that had been missing in earlier versions.
・The final kanji added was a non-jouyou kanji 篭, which is a simplified form of the jouyou kanji 籠 that should have been added instead. 篭 seems to be higher in the usage frequency tables anyway though...
2012
・An official supplement PDF was released containing the 157 aditional Jouyou kanji added to the list in 2010 that were not already in the book. 籠 is actually shown in this supplement in brackets next to the simplified 篭.
So the 6th ed now teaches 2,135 / 2,136 kanji from the 2010 Jouyou list, with the simplified version of the remaining kanji being taught. It's hardly fair go crazy at the book, claiming that it doesn't teach all the Jouyou kanji... It teaches virtually all of them and goes further by adding 65 useful non-jouyou kanji.
One last thing: Kenji, you know you mentioned 烙 earlier, well it's actually taught in the RTK Vol.3! This third volume teaches recognition, meaning, and readings of 800 additional non-jouyou kanji, bringing you up to a total of exactly 3000 kanji. You were asking me where you would learn extra additional non-jouyou kanji, well there ya go. ^^
If I ever decide to learn to write kanji on paper, and if I want to extend my knowledge past the 2000ish kanji I currently know, then I will probably actually use Heisig's book.
Here's one of my favourite youtube channels. Check out the first video that plays which talks about RTK, and the following videos are cool for stuff about SRS and learning kanji:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sspUdoV9Il0&list=PLSOR9_iNzVfn51EOjTy_mBY8fCCcYvVOp&index=2
Also recommend reading through this old article. This briefly tells the interesting story of how Heisig ended up writing RTK in the 70's. He seems like a pretty decent interesting person:
http://www.kanjiclinic.com/riverainterview.htm - @mog
You're right. I said some unnecessary things. I apologize to everyone on jcjp. 申し訳ありませんでした。
I hope you guys understand why I got upset, though. This website gets a lot of new users literally everyday. They're people who are eager to learn, but at the same time, lost. Naturally, they'll search the feeds/forum looking for advice. So we can't have this kind of "advice" here. With lots of misinformation, and no basis at all. This could be bad for someone who just started. It could've been a great topic, if discussed properly.
まぁ、しょうがないね。。。
ps: pretty sure you're better than me, though hahah
